Sathi ho yo 53 page bhayera laamo bhayo bhanera padhna alchhi nagarau.yo sab ek ek akshar padhnu parchha.
yasle hamilai direct impact parchha.
ma pani padhna suru gardai chhu.

jai nepal

hahaha...are those some kind of joke????? and by the way.. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUK  all da muderfker moist

and Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuk all those who supports them...big middle fingure to ya all maoist lovers

can some sajha maoists or Nepe or somebody intellectual who has time to read summarize this terrorist's sambidan, i dont have time to go through this long stuff.

all i need to know is Do they have provision for punishing fwaking killers like prachande (hang him to death like saddam hussain).
Read in national newspapers that they wont let other parties exercise loktantra in Nepal, they want to rule by themselves

Fwak you maoists

hey don't see who made the constitution. I have not read the whole draft but I believe it is far better than the previous.

By the way, we have no choice. Give maoists a chance.



'अनी अब त नागरिकता आमाको नाताले पनि पाउने रे ?' A good reform.

Just sharing a fresh discussion going on in Nepal Democracy Google group. To give you a general mood and direction:

 

My first reaction to the Maoist draft:

 

From: DK

Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:29 PM

To: nepal democracy

Subject: [ND] Maoist draft of the new constitution out: ideology-ridden

FYI,

Maoist’s draft of Nepal’s constitution:

http://www.baburambhattarai.com/docs/constitution-final.doc

I am yet to study it seriously. From what I have read so far, I would

give it a C grade.

My biggest disappointment was that I felt it lacked a vision for a

prosperous Nepal. I felt this constitution makes Nepal a pretty

dogmatic state with it’s vision limited to, say, distributing it’s

existing poverty as fairly as possible among the ideologically

reconstructed shareholders !

 

However, it is not all hopeless. I felt that it can be moderated and

improved significantly using the contradictions among various parts

and articles within the draft alone.

Ahile laai yatti maatra.

DK

*** *** *** *** *** *** ***

 

A fellow member’s reaction:

 

From: XX

Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:57 PM

To: nepaldemocracy@googlegroups.com

Subject: [ND] Re: Maoist draft of the new constitution out: ideology-ridden

 

DK,

 

I am still waiting for the "just like the UML but with a harder edge" version of the maoists you promised/predicted several years back when many of us were arguing that the CPN-M was a hopelessly ideological party. its like a dinosaur egg... takes a long time to hatch i guess..

You may be surprised by the draft, but not me.

XX

 *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

 

My reply

 

From: DK

Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:55 PM

To: nepal democracy

Subject: [ND] Re: Maoist draft of the new constitution out: ideology-ridden

XX,

Wait for UML’s draft. UML ko ke kura, NC’s draft will do, particularly

if Ramchandra Poudel gets to write it.

So, until we get to read UML’s draft, we don’t know if I was really

wrong.

But if we look from the perspective of the extreme paranoia about

Maoist (that they are going to establish a North Korea/Pol Pot’s

Combodia in Nepal), Maoist certainly disappointed them. Maoist draft

does not compromise multiparty democracy, except for saying that pro-

feudalism and pro-imperialism parties will not be allowed.

But beyond this ideological and comparative thing, my major concern is

that probably no political party is going to come up with a draft that

solidly envisions a prosperous nation (with economic growth as a top

prioritized direction, that is) beyond wishful thinking. I am afraid

that NC too will choose prioritizing ‘justice’.

That would mean that Nepal will have to forget the constitution (or

keep ‘amending’ it frequently) and make progress anyway and anyhow.

What a waste of the constitution and the struggle for the Constituent

Assembly that would be.

DK.

 *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

 

Fellow member’s follow-up:

 

From: XX

Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:18 PM

To: nepaldemocracy@googlegroups.com

Subject: [ND] Re: Maoist draft of the new constitution out: ideology-ridden

DK:

you say:

".Maoist draft does not compromise multiparty democracy, except for saying that pro-

feudalism and pro-imperialism parties will not be allowed."

...

I think most people reasonably educated in the history and meaning of democracy will agree that this is akin to saying "your diet will not be compromised, except that no solid foods will be allowed."

I am sure that you are old enough to remember that the Panchayat system also created various litmus tests for election candidates..... right?

DK, somehow I am not surprised that that clause in the maoist document does not faze you....

I think there are many people in Nepal who are willing to allow someone to take liberties with democracy in return for clean/non corrupt, effective governance and economic development... something no one in Nepali history has been able to provide...... with the exception of maybe Amshuvarma.... :)

maybe that is not what your thinking is, and as you like to say, I am creating a 'straw-person' here...

but its really hard to read anything else into your casual attitude towards such potentially autocracy-inviting clauses.

finally, SO WHAT if a FEUDAL wants to run a political party.... ? Or a PRO-IMPERIALIST ? in a democracy they ought to be allowed to hoina?

THe WHIG party in UK as well as the TORIES had definite 'feudal' origins, with the latter most definitely tied to landed (feudal ) interests in the UK.  The WHIG party was the 'peo-imperialist" party of the time.... supporting business/merchant classes against royal prerogative.

But liberal democracy in UK stood the test of time, evolved, and is now regarded as among the most stable.   "Prachanda" of the UK, i.e.Cromwell, made an attempt to sideline all his political opponents, and in 1653 got himself declared the "lord protector" of England, Scotland and Ireland.  Cromwell died in 1658; his body was exhumed by those he had  persecuted earlier, and his dead body was beheaded in public....

A little more than 100 years after Cromwell, the whig and tory parties gave shape to competitive democratic government in England,... descendents of the same forces Cromwell persecuted on way to declaring himself the equivalent of "President" of UK of the time...

best,

XX

 *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

 

and the debate continues.

Nepe

its a bad one..they are playing games and want to control everything..that's what it proves and divide people on ethenic basis ..wat a load of crap

A part of my communication to comment on the article #18 and to point out how Maoist have given the ‘right of self-determination’ in one article (#18-3) and taken away in another article (#42-2, clarification clause) and what that might mean to us.

 

 _________________________________________________________

“…Article #18 of the draft is terrifying, to say the least.

 However, we must keep in mind (or keep our hope up for) that Maoist do play with words. I have seen instances in which they start with a very specific statement, then go to make it ambivalent and finally reject the original statement completely.

The ‘right of self-determination’ is a case in point.

The article #18-3 grants ‘right of self determination’. Then article #42-2 (clarification clause) redefines it essentially rejecting it completely.

So, I am hopeful that article #18-2 (right to develop as a ‘nation’) can be expected to be re-interpreted to mean something abstract rather than a real new ‘nation’.

But, in any case, it is clear that Maoist draft has left too much work/activism to make it ‘moderate’ enough…”

___________________________________________________________ 

 

Nepe

Saala pahilaa ko baata copy paste garera aafaile banaako jasto garchhan kutta maobaadi haru..feri support gardai aaipugechha NEPE...13000 janataa marne kutta haru lai faasi dinu parchha bhanne niyam chai sambidhan kahile rakhne ha NEPE? Janataa ko aakhaa maa chharo haalna sambidhan banaako bhanera naatak garne kutta Maobaadi haru ra tyahi samidhan tha paai paai pani maobaadi le banaako bhanera aru lai uksaauna khojne maobaadi ka puchhar haru lai mero tarfa baata ek patak thukna chahanchhu.. THUUUUUUUUUUU....

यो बोल्ने अंग र हग्ने अंग एकै ठाउँमा भएकी जस्ती चोथाले केटीले कुरा जेजसरी बोलेपनि माओवादी युद्धकालिन युद्ध अपराधको बारेमा के छ त सम्विधानमा भन्ने जिज्ञासा चाही जायज र महत्वपूर्ण हो ।

माओवादी सम्विधानमा युद्ध-अपराधको बारेमा सत्य-तथ्य सार्वजनिक गरी ‘मेलमिलाप’ गर्ने भन्ने र प्रकारान्तले ‘सजाय नगर्ने’ भन्ने आसयको प्रावधान राखेका छन् ।

हुन त अस्ती भर्खर एकजना माओवादी सभासद भन्दैथिए- युद्ध अपराधीलाई सजाय गरीन्छ, प्रमाण जलाएको रहेछ भने पनि खरानी खोजेर सजाय गर्ने रे !

अब माओवादीको draft मा war crimes को बारेमा जुन लटरपटर कुरा छ, त्यसलाई सच्याएर impunity वा immunity लाई पूर्ण रुपले नकार्ने प्रावधान भएको draft कोर्नुपर्‍यो नेपाली कंग्रेस, एमाले र अन्य दलहरुले ।  कुरा त्यो हो ।

 

Nepe

Nepe..TImi jasto maobaadi kutta haru ko "aama" haru ko holaa ni khaane ra hagne anga eutai thauma...huna ta aafno baau pani tha nahune maobaadi kutta haru..bataase haru..jungle ma hajaarau le moj garera janmekaa haru maobaadi ka bacha le yasto kura garnu thikai ho....

Aba rahyo sambidhan ko kura, purano sambhidhan herera ani naya herera compare garne ki?? kattiko copy paste chha bhanera?? Ani matra bolne ki?/

दूरगन्धीत केटी,   you stink! 

Nepe, keep your democratic forum disscussion in your closed forum itself. I find your copy paste in Sajha offensive and insult to Sajha readers. It seems like you are trying to show all sajha readers that we "elites" have some secrete discussion forum and I can show you little bit what are taking about. Bunch of hypocratic losers!

ज्वाला,

त्यसरी किन दन्केको ? मैले ND Forum को प्रचार गर्नाका हेतु नभई ऊ त्याँ माथि एकजना साझा पाठककै जिज्ञासाको उत्तर स्वरुप टाँसिदिएको हुँ । म जहिलेपनि त्यसै गर्छु । कसैको जिज्ञासा वा प्रसंग बिना कहिलेपनि टाँसेको छुईन ।  

अब जस्ताको तस्तै किन टाँसेको, त्यसलाई पुनर्लेखन गरेर टाँस्नुपर्थ्यो भन्ने आसय हो महोदयको भने, महोदयले नै त्यसरी नै पढे हुँदैन ?

यो घरायसी कुरा यत्ति नै ।

 

राष्ट्रिय कुराको हकमा, माओवादीले अरु सबै दलहरु भन्दा अगाडि नै सम्विधानको खेस्रा प्रस्तुत गरेर तारिफयोग्य काम गरेको छ । अरु धेरै कुराको संगसंगै, यसले अहिले भईरहेको सुझाव संकलन कार्यलाई समेत अप्रत्यक्ष रुपमा वैचारिक मद्दत पुर्‍याएको छ ।

यो खेस्रा पढेपछि सुझावदाताहरुमा वैचारिक स्पष्टता बढ्नेछ र कुन कुन बुँदामा कुन सतर्कताकासाथ जवाफ दिने भन्ने कुरामा मद्दत पुग्नेछ ।

अरु अल्छि दलहरुको के कुरा गरिरहनु ?

माओवादी खेस्राको बारेमा नटशेलमा त मैले विचार राखि नै हालें । नेपाललाई द्रुत आर्थिक प्रगतिको मार्गमा राख्‍न चाहिने विश्वअर्थतन्त्रिय बोध र दिग्दर्शन यसमा अनुपस्थित मात्र होईन त्यसलाई नकार सम्म गरिएको छ । जातिय राजनीतिलाई नेपालको नयाँ विलासिताको रुपमा स्थापना गरेर नेपालको प्राथमिकतालाई दिग्भ्रमित पारिएको छ ।

जे भएपनि यी सुधार्न सकिने कुराहरु हुन्, खास गरेर सम्विधानलेखनविधी (हरेक धाराको लागि दुई तिहाई बहुमत चाहिने) र नेपाली मतदाताहरुको मत विभाजनले के सुनिश्चित गरिदिएको छन भने, सम्विधान कि त सहमतिले लेखिन्छ, कि त लेखिदै लेखिदैन ।

त्यसैले माओवादी वा, for that matter, कुनै पनि दलको त्रुटी सम्विधानमा सजिलै नछिर्ने कुरा निश्चित छ ।

बुँदागत कुराहरु आफ्नो ठाउँमा छदैछ, जे भए पनि माओवादीले खेस्रा प्रस्तुत गरिहालेर सम्विधानको खाकाबारे सार्वजनिक बहसको लागि ठूलो गुण लगाएको छ ।

Nepe

 

If they won the election, why not give them a chance? Patience is a virtue!

K6 बन्धु,

सम्विधान भन्ने कुरा एक चुनाव अवधीको लागि लेखिने कुरा हो र ?

यो त अनन्त कालको लागि (कम्तिमा ४०-५० वर्षको लागि भनम् न) सामान्य हेरफेर बाहेक अन्य परिवर्तन गर्न नपर्ने गरी लेखिने दस्तावेज हो ।

एक चुनावी अवधीको लागि लेखिने कुरा त चुनावी घोषणापत्र हो । माओवादीको चुनावी घोषणापत्र चाही मलाई मन परेको दस्तावेज हो । माओवादी चुनावी घोषणापत्र धेरै नै हदमा "मध्यमार्गी" थियो । सम्विधान जस्तो दस्तावेज त आवश्यकताले नै त्यो भन्दा पनि बढी मध्यमार्गी हुनुपर्ने थियो, किनभने ४०-५० वर्षको अवधीमा मुलुक सालाखाला "मध्यमार्ग" मै हिड्छ ।

माओवादीले तयार पारेको सम्विधानको खेस्रा चाही far left वाला छ र यो कस्तो उडानमा आधारित हो भने नेपालमा अब देखि अनन्त कालसम्म माओवादीकै सत्ता रहनेछ र त्यो पनि अहिलेको जस्तो एकतिहाईको सबभन्दा ठूलो दलको हिसाबको नभई प्रचण्ड बहुमतिय (भनम् दुई तिहाई बहुमत) सत्ता रहिरहनेछ ।

माओवादीको यही खेस्रा सम्विधान लागु गर्ने हो भने, अर्को दलको सरकार बन्ने बित्तिकै फेरि अर्को यति धेरै पुनर्लेखन गर्नु पर्ने हुन्छ कि त्यो नयाँ सम्विधान लेख्‍ने बराबर हुन्छ ।

त्यसैले अब हुने चाही के स्पष्ट छ भने सम्विधानसभाले निर्माण गर्ने सम्विधानमा चाही माओवादीका खेस्रामा रहेका माओवादीका लागि मात्र महत्वपूर्ण तर गैरमाओवादीका लागि अमान्य हुने धेरै बुँदाहरु अस्वीकार गरिनेछ ।

अब प्रश्न उठ्छ: माओवादीले अन्त्यमा भारी संसोधन भएरै छाड्ने खालको खेस्रा किन प्रस्तुत गरेछन् ?

एउटा त यो मोलमोलाई को रणनीति हो । Far left मा बसेर मोलमोलाई गरेपछि अलिकति left तिर tilt भएको सम्विधान बन्छ कि भनेर भनम् न । अर्को चाही साम्यवादी दिक्षामा हुर्केका आफ्ना कार्यकर्तालाई while it lasts खुशी पार्न हो ।

तर उनिहरुले के चाही देखेनन् वा देखाजाएगा भन्ने सोचे भने सम्विधानसभाद्वारा निर्मित सम्विधानको दस्तावेज चाही माओवादी कार्यकर्तालाई निराश बनाईदिने खालको हुनेछ । अब कतिजनालाई २०४७ को सम्विधानको मामलामा जस्तै "आलोचनात्मक समर्थन" जनाउन बाध्य बनाउन सक्छन्, उनिहरुको सांगठनिक स्वास्थ्य त्यसैमा भर पर्नेछ ।

Nepe