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 नेवा राज्यः सभ्यताको हाराकिरी by Saurav

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Posted on 11-16-09 9:57 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Very Nice Article by Saurav on Newar civilization that every Nepali should be proud of. Newar is what but a mixture of most races of Nepal.


नेवा राज्यः सभ्यताको हाराकिरी

http://www.ekantipur.com/np/news/news-detail.php?news_id=302159

काठमाडौं, २०६६ मंसिर १ - 'ने वारहरू लसुन गन्हाउँछन्'- पश्चिमले
लेख्यो (हेमिल्टन २२९) । तर तिनलाई के थाहा ? लसुनको विशद बयान एउटै
पुस्तकमा थियो र त्यो पुस्तकको एउटै मात्र पृथ्वीमा जीवितप्रति
नेवारहरूसँग मात्र थियो- कश्यप संहिता । जसले मह काढ्यो उसले हात चाट्यो ।
आज भारतले वराहमिहिरको जुन बृहत् संहिता प्रकाशित गरेको छ, त्यो
नेवारहरूकै सम्पदा थियो । भूमिकामै लेखिएको छ- प्राण मल्लको समयको
प्रतिलिपि हो । वाल्मीकि रामायणका दुई प्राचीनतम लिखित रूपमध्येको एउटा
नेवारहरूकै परम्पराबाट संग्रहित भएको हो । नेपालबाट चोरी भएर दिल्लीमा
निस्केको फिरदौशीको सुवणर्ाक्षरयुक्त शाहनामा पनि नेवारहरूकै संग्रह
परम्पराको हो । 'आशा सफू कुथी' को के कुरा ? अलेक्जेन्डि्रयासँगै उसको
पुस्तकालय जलेर ध्वस्त भयो । तर नेवारहरूको ज्ञान परम्परा टुटेन ।
नालन्दासँगै उसको पुस्तकालय जलेर ध्वस्त भयो, तर नेवारहरूको ज्ञान
संग्रहको परम्परा बिथोलिएन ।


गएको मे महिनामा बसन्तपुरको गरुड नारायण मन्दिरको पूर्वी सिँढीबाट नेवा
स्वायत्त राज्यको माग गरिँदै काठमाडौंमा तोडफोड भएको दृश्य टेलिभिजनमा
हेर्दा पंक्तिकार रोल्पाको सुलिवाङमा थियो- माओवादी आन्दोलन सुरु भएको
थवाङ पुग्न पहिलो पाइला चाल्दै गर्दा । बाँचिरहे अनेक देख्न पाइन्छ
चरितार्थ भएको थियो । सिँढीमा बसेका नेता नामधारी परिचित अनुहारहरू सही
ठाउँमा विराजमान थिए । किनभने मन्दिरपछाडिको गरुडको एउटा कानमा लगाएको
गहना अर्कोसँग पटक्कै मिल्दैन । यो कुनै पनि पाठकले त्यहाँ पुगेर हेरे
हुन्छ । नभन्दै गरुडका अगुवा यी अनुहारहरूमध्ये कैयन एकातिर वामपन्थी र
अर्कोतिर पि|mटिवेटका भूमिगत उन्नायकहरू हुन् भनेर जगत जान्दछ । लाग्यो
त्यो नालन्दा र अलेक्जेन्डि्रयालाई माथ गर्ने नेवार प्रज्ञा चक्षु आज बन्द
भएको छ ।


चार सय वर्षसम्म दिनको ५५ वर्गमाइलका दरले रूसको विस्तार भएको थियो-
सोभियत संघ बनेर फुट्नुअघि । त्यसैगरी कैंयौं शताब्दीसम्मको अनवरत
संघर्षले पाँचांै शताब्दीमा पुगेर समुद्र गुप्तले आसामदेखि कुमाउसम्मको
भनेर तोकेको र हुयन साङले चार हजार लि को भनेर तय गरेको अर्थात् महाचीन र
महाभारतले टाउको झुकाएको त्यस विशाल नेपाललाई- एउटी मेरी श्लशर शेपर्ड नाम
गरेकी मिमसाहेबलेे 'नेपाल मण्डला' शीर्षकका दुई खण्ड के लेखिदिइन्-
'नेपाल' भनेको उपत्यकाका तीन सहर र त्यसवरिपरिका १२ गाउँ मात्रै हो भनेर
केही मुठ्ठीभरहरूबाट खुम्च्याउने कसरत भइरहेको छ । जबकि स्वयम् नेवारहरूले
त्यस पुस्तकलाई 'लिमिट अफ सर्फ]{ आर्कियलजी' भन्ने संज्ञा दिइसके । तर
आसामदेखि कुमाउसम्मको नेपाल संज्ञावाची 'नेपाल भाषा' पनि भन्नुपरेको छ,
नेपाल संवत् पनि भन्नुपरेको


छ । यो के अंग्रेजीको 'शिक्षित तर निरक्षर' चरितार्थ गर्नु होइन ?


गोपाल सिंह नेपालीले 'नेवार्स' मा भारतको 'नायर' सँग मिल्ने के संकेत
गरिदिए, कुलचन्द्र कोइरालाले ६० वर्षअघिसम्म नायरहरूको पनि बेलविवाह
हुन्थ्यो के लेखिदिए २३ सय वर्षअघि नै नेपाल उल्लेख गरेर कौटिल्यले दिएको
पाँच लाख वर्ग किलोमिटरभन्दा बढी भूभागको प्राचीनता त्यहाँ गौण भयो ।
नेपालेच्छु -नेपाली उखु) लेख्ने सुश्रुत र नेपाल उल्लेख गर्ने भरत
नाट्यमका भरतलाई ईशाभन्दा हजार वर्षअघिका भनेर भोलि सावित गरियो भने त
कुरै छोडौं । जबकि भारतको उत्तर प्रदेशस्थित मानपुरदेखि पाकिस्तानको
सतकादेन डोरसम्म चार लाख असी हजार वर्ग किलोमिटरमा विस्तारित सभ्यता
हडप्पा सभ्यता हुन पुगेको छ । चीनले नेपालका बाघ सकेपछि हामीले छतमाथिको
विरालो देखाएर यही हो बाघ भनेको भन्दै भावी सन्तानलाई चिनाउने दिन आउनु
कुन आश्चर्य भयो र ? आखिर ७ हजार वर्षअघिको जलाशययुक्त उपत्यकालाई हामीले
टौदहमा हेर्ने गरेकै हो ।


'कैंयौं शताब्दीपछि' भन्ने वाक्यांश माथि त्यसै लेखिएको होइन । विशुद्ध
विज्ञानले अन्यथा सावित गरेन भने 'उत्तम खेती मध्यम व्यापार, अघम नोकरी',
का आधारमा नेवार 'हाइरार्की' को सबैभन्दा सम्मानित वर्ग ज्यापू उपत्यकाको
आदिखस हुनुपर्छ भन्ने पंक्तिकारलाई लाग्छ । गथामुगको श्रृंगारिक र
भावनात्मक रूप तामाङ परम्परा हो भनेर स्पष्टै देखिन्छ । वनमालाहरू चीनबाट
आएका हुन् भनेर मालाकारहरूले पटकपटक भनेको यही कानले सुनेको हो ।
ईशापूर्वको तेस्रो शताब्दीमा नै उपत्यकामा तराईबाट बज्जी र कोलीहरू ओइरिए
भनेर प्रमाणित नै छ । जयस्थिति मल्ल स्वयम् तराईबाट उपत्यका आएका 'डोला'
हुन् र त्यसैले नेवारहरू राजालाई ठकुजुजु -ठकुरी राजा) भन्छन् भन्ने लिखित
कुरा नै हो अर्थात् के खस, के किरात, के बज्जी नेवार एउटा जाति होइन,
संस्कृति हो भन्ने स्पष्ट भएकैले नेपाली कांग्रेसका ओमकार श्रेष्ठलगायतले
नेपाल जनजाति महासंघको सूचीमा नपार्न विरोध गरेर सचेत 'ज्ञान चक्षु'
दर्शाएकै हो र नेवारहरूलाई पनि त्यो सूचीमा सामेल गर्न पाए हामीलाई सजिलो
पर्छ भनेर जातीय साम्प्रदायिकहरूले त्यो बेला छापामा भनेकै हुन् ।


र 'केही मुठ्ठीभर' पनि माथि त्यसै लेखिएको होइन । इस्वीको १८१८ मा
काठमाडौंको क्षेत्रपाटीबाट भक्तबहादुर नगरकोटी जुम्ला पुगे । सन् १७७० मा
भक्तपुरबाट अवधूत मल्ल बाग्लुङ पुगे । इलामदेखि चैनपुर, बन्दीपुरदेखि
सल्यान र दोधारासम्म पुग्ने क्रम त कायमै थियो । हुँदाहुँदा एक 'महर्जन'
१९१९ मा बजिरिस्तानको युद्धस्थलमा पनि पुगे- ज्यानमारा खैबर होस् वा वोलान
पास पार गरेर । त्यसपछि वर्माको आराकानदेखि नागाल्यान्डको कोहिमा, चुम्बी
उपत्यकादेखि सतलजसम्म बन्द व्यापारको उद्देश्यले फैलिएको नेवार
'डायस्पोरा' लाई उपत्यकाभित्रै थन्क्याउन पुग्नु/तिनले आत्मसात गरेको
नेपाललाई अस्वीकार गर्नु/तिनलाई नेवार नै भन्न नचाहनु वा काठमाडौंमा
पटकपटक सुनिने 'पाखे नेवार' भन्नु ए एवम् सी क्लासको भन्ने चरम सामन्तवादी
राणा वर्गीकरणभन्दा के फरक भयो ? जबकि तिनको योगदान व्यापारिक उद्देश्यका
दृष्टिले जापानको सन्दर्भमा म्याथ्यु पेरीको, लेटिन अमेरिकाको सन्दर्भमा
पिजारोको, अपि|mकाको सन्दर्भमा लिभिङस्टोनको वा मध्य एसियाको सन्दर्भमा
मुराविएभको भन्दा कम अग्रणी रहेको छैन, उपत्यकाको 'चिसो ढुंगामा खेलखाल
गरिरहनेहरू' का के कुरा ?


दुइटा उदाहरण लिऊ । गढवालको नगरकोटबाट पाँच सय क्षेत्रीहरूलाई जयप्रकाश
मल्लले झिकाए युद्धमोर्चामा खटाउन । तर उपत्यकाको सामन्ती नेवार समाजले
नगरकोटीलाई समाजको तल्लो 'स्टार्टा' मा लगेर


राखिदियो । ती क्षेत्रीहरू भक्तबहादुर जस्तै जुम्ला मात्र लागेनन् ।
उत्तरपूर्वी भारतको युद्ध मैदानमा डट्न पुगे र सैनिकलाई दिइने सर्वोच्चतम
बेलायती पदक वीरवल नगरकोटीले प्राप्त गरे । १८५४ भन्दा अघि नै । जतिबेला
भिक्टोरियाक्रसको अस्तित्व नै थिएन । किनभने क्राइमियाको युद्ध भएको थिएन
र भिक्टोरियाक्रस बनाउने धातुको निम्ति रूसी तोपहरू लुटिएकै थिएनन् । आज
आफूले मात्रै सर्वोच्चतम सैनिक पदक पाएजस्तो गर्ने नेपालका समुदायभन्दा
नेवारहरू कम थिए ?


दलितहरूको सूचीमा खड्गी र नापितहरूले आफूलाई पार्न चाहेनन् । घोर विरोध
भयो । नभन्दै आन्ध्रप्रदेशमा मन्त्री हुने खड्गी दलित नेवार होइनन् ।
अर्थात् गोपाल वंशावली नै गलत हो, खड्गीलाई एघारौं शताब्दीमा नेपाल आएको
भनिदिने । राँगोको मासु खान त २ हजार वर्षअघि नै सुरु भइसकेको थियो । नयाँ
पेसा लिने र नवागन्तुकलाई समाजको तल्लो 'स्टार्टा' मा राख्ने, सहर बाहिर
बस्तीमा धकेलिदिने त चोखाछँे गल्लीको परम्परा नै हो । न बाहिर गएकालाई
भाइबन्धु भनेर स्वीकार्ने, न भित्रिएकालाई । अनि घट्दै गएर असन
इन्द्रचोकमा सीमित नभएर के गर्ने ?


तैपनि सआदत खानले लखनौभरि 'वाग' शब्दमा मात्रै अन्त हुने स्थान नामहरूको
संस्कृति दिनुभन्दा एक हजार वर्षअघि नै उपत्यकामा लिच्छविहरूले बगैँचा
मात्र होइन बारी र खेतसम्मका आ-आफ्नै छुट्टै नाम हुने र प्रत्येकका
नामान्तमा वाटिका शब्द हुने प्रचलन दिए । जसलाई मल्लहरूले पनि कायम राखे ।
सारा घरमा गजुर हुन्थे । मानौं प्रत्येक घर एउटा 'मानव मन्दिर' थियो-
अंग्रेजीको भित्री मूल्यसहितको 'होम' सरह । सौन्दर्यशास्त्रको भौतिक आयाम
सभ्यताको चुलीमा मात्र प्राप्त हुन्छ ।


रोड ग्यावर्स र सी.भदेत्रोले नेपाली मुद्रालाई विश्वका सुन्दरतम
मुद्रामध्येको एकमा गनेकै छन् । जुन नेवार परम्पराकै हो । नाप तौलको नेवार
परम्परालाई सारफ्धरबाट ज्ञान लिनुपरेको थियो र ?


जब काठमाडौं र पाटनका राजाले आफूसँग भएका बहुमूल्य वस्तुहरू देखाए,
भक्तपुरका राजाले संकलित बीउहरू सम्पत्तिका रूपमा देखाए लेखिएकै छ ।
अर्थात् आज 'बायोडाइभर्सिटी' का नाममा धान र मकैका 'जर्म प्ल्ााज्म'
जगेर्नाका निम्ति फिलिपिन्सको इरी र मेक्सिकोको सिमिटसम्म पठाउनु तीन सय
वर्षअघि नै त्यसको चेतना नेवारहरूमा थियो ।


म्याक्सवेबरियन शैलीमा कृषि उत्पादनमा अत्यधिक परिमाण हासिल गरिएपछि
औद्योगीकरणमा लाग्न सजिलो हुन्छ- आधुनिक अर्थशास्त्रले यस तर्कको निम्ति
जापानलाई देखाउँछ, तर जापानलाई पनि त्यस अंकमा ज्यापूहरूले उछिनेको तथ्य
'फ्याटालिज्म एन्ड डेभलपमेन्ट' मै छ ।


घ्यूमा बन्ने हरियो मोल्ड सयौं वर्षमा कालो हुन्छ- कालसर्पी । ईशाको
दोस्रो मिलेनियममा त्यसलाई 'एन्टिबायोटिक' भनेर पश्चिमले पत्ता लगाउनुअघि
उपत्यकामा कालसर्पी कम्तीमा २ हजार वर्षदेखि प्रयोग


हुन्थ्यो । तीसँग एन्टिबायोटिक भन्ने 'जार्गोन' थिएन, त्यति न हो ।


सयौं किसिमको थर विभाजन गरे जयस्थिति मल्लले भनेर अरूले होच्याउँदा ती चुप
लाग्छन् । तर ती भन्न सक्दैनन्- त्यसमा हदसम्मको सूक्ष्म श्रम विभाजन
गर्ने पद्धति पश्चिमा व्यवस्थापन प्रणालीसँग त्यो युगमा थियो ?


यसरी आफ्नो सभ्यतालाई सभ्यता भनेर नचिनेर मात्र संस्कृति भनेर अवमूल्यन
गर्ने उपत्यकाका मुठ्ठीभर 'डेकाडेन्ट' हरूको मूर्खताकै निम्ति पाकिस्तानका
अर्थमन्त्री महबुव हकले 'मानव विकास सूचकांक' तर्जुमा गरेको र आधुनिक
नेपाली अर्थशास्त्री र योजनाकारहरूले त्यस सूचकांकको एक नम्बरमा
नेवारहरूलाई राखेको हो ? यही हो चेतना र प्रगतिको २१ औं शताब्दी सुहाउँदो
आयाम ? आज बुद्धकालीन १६ महाजन पदहरू कहाँ छन् नामको अवशेष बाहेक ? हडप्पा
सभ्यताको हालत के छ ? जो नेवारहरू हडप्पाभन्दा ठूलो आजको विस्तारित नेवार
सभ्यतालाई जामुन गुभाजुको किंवदन्तीमा सीमित गर्न चाहन्छन् ।


यसै पनि पञ्चायतकालीन दोस्रो मन्त्रिपरिषद्बाट सोझै सुरु हुनुभन्दा
अघिदेखि नै पश्चिम नेपाल र पूर्वी नेपाल सामाजिक रूपमा विभाजित छ ।
पश्चिमबाट उठेको माओवादी विद्रोह संयोगमात्र होइन । त्यसमाथि उपत्यका
केन्दि्रत नेवार सभ्यताका दायाँ खस प्रधान र बायाँ किरात प्रधान नश्लीय
नेपाल छ । त्यहाँनेर सभ्यताको छाता ओढाएर नेवारहरूले नेपाललाई जातीय,
धार्मिक, नश्लीय आधारमा टुट्न नदिएर युगीन जिम्मेवारी बहन गर्ने हो कि
आफंै लुटको सदावर्तमा होमिएको मानसिक रूपमै एक 'सहरी गरिब' सावित हुने हो ?


ऋग्वैदिक व्याँपूजा, बृहदारण्यकोपनिषदको दर्शनमा आधारित क्वााटिपुन्ही,
ब्रम्हवैवर्तमा आधारित 'पलेस्वाँया ज्योँना लप्ते' त छँदै छ ।
मार्कण्येयमा आधारित प्रसादको रूपमा राँगो खाने उनीहरूको परम्परालाई हेय
गर्नुपर्ने कारण पनि छैन । किनभने बोका स्वयम् दक्षप्रजापति/दायोनिशश
अर्थात् बोक्सेरोदेवको मासु हो । बुझ्ने नेवारहरू पलेस्वाँ समातेका
ज्ञानीका रूपमा छन् अति थोरै, नबुझेकाहरू खिचा पलेस्वाँमा रमाइरहेका छन् ।
आज रमिता छ ।


राजगद्दीको दाबेदार 'सिरिक माताक' ले सिंहानुकको हत्या गर्ने आदेश
लोननोललाई दिएको थियो । क्याम्बोडियामा आएको भीषण राजनीतिक अस्थिरताको
कारण यो पनि थियो । मनिभोङको गद्दीका तीन भिन्नभिन्न परिवारका दाबेदार
राजकुमारका कारण लाओसले पनि गृहयुद्ध बेहोर्‍यो वामपन्थी क्रान्तिका नाममा
। केहीलाई शाह नभइदिए हामी 'मल्ल' गद्दीमा बस्थ्यौ भन्ने लागेको आक्रोश
देखिन्छ । तर जर्मनीका १३ सय रजौटा राज्यहरू, चीनका झन्डै ७ सय राज्यहरू,
भारतका ५६५ राज्यहरू आज खोई ? विजय 'मल्ल ' ले छोरीलाई मानचित्र पढाउनु १२
सय वर्षअघि नै एउटा सानो गढवालमै ५८ वटा राज्य विलिन भइसकेका थिए ।
अग्राधिकारको खोजीले राजतन्त्र गएको छ, नखोजेको भए रहन्थ्यो भन्ने उदाहरण
नेवारका निम्ति यहाँनेर प्रशस्त छ ।


मोहन शमशेर राणाले १९५० को सन्धिले 'सबै भारतीय नेपाली हुन्, सबै नेपाली
भारतीय हुन्' बनाइदिएथे । वीरेन्द्रले २०३७ मा सबै नेपाली पञ्च हुन्, सबै
पञ्च नेपाली हुन् बनाइदिए । नेवा राज्यले नेवार सभ्यता भनेको फोसिल हो,
फोसिल भनेको नेवार सभ्यता हो भन्ने भनाइ बनाइदिने छ । जबकि सबै नेपाली
नेवार हुन्, सबै नेवार नेपाली हुन् भन्ने मान्यता बन्नुपथ्र्यो । वाग्मती
सभ्यताको नाममा आफ्नो पुर्खाको सभ्यतालाई हडप्पाभन्दा पर लान खोजिरहेको
एउटै नेवार हाम्रासामु छ- हुतराम वैद्य जसलाई म नान्यदेवको भाइको सन्तान
कणर्ाटकी हुँ भन्नलाई त्यहीं र्फकनुपरेको छैन । अरू त सबै नारायणगोपाल
गुरुवाचार्यको गीत गरुड नारायण मन्दिरअघि गुनगुनाइरहेछन्- आज म मुर्दा
भएको हेर !


 
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Posted on 11-17-09 11:30 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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I support newlynew and by the way what's up  with this race and all other aspects anyway?Arahat, watch your mouth before you drool a word. Saw your first response and i felt pity for you having such a low graded insight about someone like newlynew here in sajha.


welcome!

Last edited: 17-Nov-09 11:40 PM

 
Posted on 11-17-09 11:53 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Well said Geology Tiger
 
Posted on 11-18-09 3:03 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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agree with geology tiger to sum extent, ethnic hatred n separatist movement should b avoided. but again acknowledging nepalese ethnic diversity and praising mahendras effort is contradictory in itself. his national policy favored only the elites n one group of the soceity, it was discriminatory for the rest, wat did it do to strengthen nationalism?? see the results now. if it was so golden shoudlnt we hav peace, prosporous n healthy nation now?? u would obviously say that casue u dont represent n understand the sentiment of the oppressed ones. for u that was just n perfect. hav been hearing everytime this hollow n vague nepalese nationalism that is attributed only in dhaka topi, daura suruwal, nepali lang(khas, gorkahli, parbate) apart from that all r seperatist, anti nationals n unpatriotic. there is no factors in terms of history, people, geography, socio-political on which we can compare US with nepal, its total different.
i do believe dipendra gunned down his whole family, wat is ur version bro? royalties hav always been engaged in bloodshed, he is no different or theres no surprise in it . glad this whole instituion has fallen down n we r secular country. ethnic problem is one of the major prob to b solved in nepal among many others, cant ignore it n sweep it under the carpet bro.

 
Posted on 11-18-09 7:41 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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All I am asking for is the true definition of Janajatis, which I am yet to get from all those who are in support of ethnic divisions. Without that, how are we supposed to have productive discussion on the topic?


Nobody is saying diversity should not be preserved. It should be. But when it comes to national unity, I am not willing to make any compromises.


While you are free to practice your culture and customs, I am completely against anyone getting special previleges just because of his/her last name. Previleges should be made available to those in need and by merit. I don't see anything wrong with that. If anyone supporting "Janajati thing" can respond to that without being abusive and uncivilized, that would be much appreciated.


 
Posted on 11-20-09 12:21 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Since blingbling thinks I'm showing frustration from this thread, I'm again going to drag this thread.

Mr. Newlynew, I again say that I don't know the definition of 'janajatis' and I'm again accusing of being a back stabber.

What makes you think that anyone revealing and uniting with their ethnicity are supporting for the divisions. Isn't it the other way around that you're trying to instinct the hatred and fight from 'janajatis' with your irrelevant venom.

Are you in the right mind to expect having the productive discussion when you start the first sentence by accusing the other party for being the 'back-stabber'? Do you see any hypocrisy here? 

Nobody is saying diversity should not be preserved. It should be. But when it comes to national unity, I am not willing to make any compromises.

-> How do you aim to preserve the diversity without recognizing the diversity and when all you can do is accuse the diverse parties.

While you are free to practice your culture and customs, I am completely against anyone getting special previleges just because of his/her last name. Previleges should be made available to those in need and by merit. I don't see anything wrong with that. -> I absolutely agree that the previleges should be given to those in need. But don't you see that in some last names, everyone is in need. 

If anyone supporting "Janajati thing" can respond to that without being abusive and uncivilized, that would be much appreciated.

-> Here go you preaching again. Should I again write what is the first sentence that you'd want to have this civilized conversation with?


 
Posted on 11-20-09 12:26 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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sirupate_brigade, the division of states based on ethnicity is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. 
again borrowing the sentence from you, preaching national unity without recognizing ethnic diversity is just a dream and that's what is causing the rift among us.  

 
Posted on 11-20-09 1:13 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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What's so difficult to understand from what I am saying.


I am all for:


- Your right to unite under your last name or middle name or whatever so as to preserve your culture and way of life.


I am against:


- Group of people sharing common last name creating larger group with troubling politilical agendas, eg., declaring autonomous states, getting special previledges etc. If 100% of people with a last name "A" is under priviledged, I am all for their right to access public service with great priority. But if a person X with good merit that also happens to be in need of support, but unfortunately goes with "wrong" last name, then I would not tolerate X being denied any of it based on his last name.


I am apalled at support from some folks here who I assume is at least high school educated towards national policies based on last names. That I absolutely abhor. Please learn to love all...


 
Posted on 11-20-09 2:11 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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It is very difficult to understand what you're saying when you're holding a sword against all 'janjatis' while trying to having a productive discussion.

I'm absolutely against any kind of autonomous states. I don't think Nepal needs any autonomous states based on ethnicity or geography. Based on ethnicity would be a disaster to our country. In my opinion, not every janjatis should be given the previledges, and there should be a clear demarcations on who gets the previledge as I said tharus and dalits really need to be given previledges. But these should also be done until the certain goal is achieved under certain year's plan. Previledges should not be given FOREVER, and absolutely not to all janjatis. I second your opinion on avoiding some intelligent students from whatever class not getting the opportunity because of the quota given to the dumb students from the under-developed class. But we can never agree when you and I start making stereotypes and stabbing each other or making accusations. When you say learn to love all, why can't you start from yourself instead of just preaching. I never showed any disrespect towards any ethnicity, it's you who started with your words of hatred.

 
Posted on 11-25-09 8:04 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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सबै लै राज्य, तर नेपाल का एकमात्र  सच्चा   आदिबासी , ने  मुनि  का   सन्तान , नेपाल एकीकरण  कर्ता  खस (बाहुन, छेत्री, ठकुरी, सन्यासी, दलित ) हरुलाई राज्य खोइ?? 
 खस हरुको आदिभूमि कर्णाली र सुदुर्पचिम लै  किन खसान नभनिकन   कर्णाली र खप्तड वा सेती महाकाली भनेको ??? एमाले र माओबादी  ले बनाएको बहु संस्कृतिक राज्य मा ९५% खस हरुको जनसंख्या छ...तेस्लाई किन छेत्रिये राज्य/ यिलाका नि???.  तेस्लाई पनि खसान (पूर्वी, पश्चिम)नामकरण गर!!!!!   खस हरुलाई  बाहुन, छेत्री, ठकुरी, सन्यासी, दलित अनि  अरु जाति मा बाडेर  टुक्र्याएर खस हरुलाई अल्पमत मा देखाउने दुष्प्रयाश नगर!!!!!!!!!   तीसौ जाति भएको नेवार समुदाय लै चाही जाति भनेर राज्य बाड्ने  तर खस हरुलाई चाही टुक्र्याउने??? आप्रबासी हरुलाई समेत राज्य बाड्न सक्ने, तर आदिबासी  खस हरुलाई राज्य नबाड़ने,  हे माओबादी र एमाले.....याद राख ....     नेपाल को लगवग ५०% जनसंख्या भएको खस हरुलाई चित्त दुखाएर कसैले  जातिय राज्येको कल्पना गर्छ भने त्यो मुर्खता मात्र हो !!!!!!!


 
Posted on 11-25-09 9:38 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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i dont think janjatis r only about quotas, also dont think this quota concept is to bring dumb ones in and smart ones out. it was made effective by non janjatis who make majority in the governemnt. actually it is the term inclusiveness that has engulfed whole bureaucracy of nepal. it is hot subject. even institutions like nepal army feels an obligation to declare thier ethnic ichlusiveness n shows it up in thier website. maoist received huge number of manpower from fighters to intellect leaders following this mantra. BP koirala had to deal smartly in eastern nepal after ranas were uprooted where the military commanders of eastern janmukti senas were vehemently declaring autonomy, he has written it in his autobiography.

about ethnic federal setups, guess u guys hav not been in nepal much or must hav seen only ktm as nepal, try to go around annapurna next time u will have to pay taxes to magarats. go around kanchanjunga or taplejung, same thing but to limbuwans, maybe bhojpur or khotang, deal with khambuwans, try rasuwa find tamlasings. it has already happened, theres no denying this reality. good or bad, dont know, all i am saying is it has already begun. n two major party supports this concept of ethnic fedearlism, thats it. i aint judging or giving my opinions, i aint expert.

well, take red indians of US same as ethnic tribes of nepal who officially falls under janjatis, they all celebrate world indegenous day together which is on ninth of aug every year, it is held at dasahrath stadium in ktm, if u dont know.

 
Posted on 11-25-09 9:55 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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United Nations Working Group of Indigenous Population (WGIP), definition;


  • (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the
    territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic
    origin arrived there;
  • (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of
    the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs
    and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those
    characterised as indigenous;
  • (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state
    structure which incorporates national, social and cultural
    characteristics alien to their own.

International Labor Organization (convention no. 169), definition;

both tribal peoples whose social, cultural and economic conditions
distinguish them from other sections of the national community and
whose status is regulated wholly or partially by their own customs or
traditions or by special laws or regulations, and to peoples who are
regarded as indigenous on account of their descent from the populations
which inhabit the country at the time of conquest or colonisation.


World Bank (
operational directive 4.20, 1991), definition;

a) close attachment to ancestral territories and to the natural resources in these areas;
b) self-identification and identification by others as members of a distinct cultural group;
c) an indigenous language, often different from the national language;
d) presence of customary social and political institutions;
e) primarily subsistence-oriented production.

definitions by renowned organizations of the world on indigenous or janjatis, since u guys do not know the definitions, here u go.





 
Posted on 11-25-09 10:45 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Based on this definition, who would not be indigenous people of Nepal? Do we have a timeline when the migration took palce for those in and out of the scope of that definition?

I don't think it would be wise to compare Native Americans situation with what we have in Nepal, where we lack the time line of migration. Someone interestingly brought up Ne-Muni...

I have no doubt that "Janajati is mauka ma chauka hanne ko Jamat". By that, I absolutely do not mean hard working grass root folks.. I mean those taking advantage of it by appearing to be leading this divisive agenda. United we stand.

Last edited: 25-Nov-09 11:05 AM

 
Posted on 11-25-09 11:12 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Just by saying United we stand, and bringing everyone under your umbrella, denouncing the identity of ethnicities and calling names for them and you still expect to have the productive discussion, don't you?
 
Posted on 11-25-09 11:25 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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You are the one making this "us and them", not me...
 
Posted on 11-25-09 11:32 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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How can I be included in your "us" with your accusation? Aren't you being hypocrite by saying so? Do you mean that I be invisible and be disguised in your forms to prove that I don't want division either?
 
Posted on 11-25-09 12:31 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Point me to the place where I said we are all not equal. It is becoming increasingly clear that it is you who want special treatments just because of your last name... And that is wrong.
 
Posted on 11-25-09 3:40 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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You're jealous of justice being served to marginalized people. I never said that all ethnicities should be given privileges; it should be given only to few based on some statistics (like per capita income, literacy rate, infant mortality rate, etc.), and yes, it'd have to be based on the category derived from the 'last name'. I am more than aware of the division that is being fueled to the extremist 'janjantis' because of your kind of extremist views.
 
Posted on 11-25-09 3:59 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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कान्तिपुर र हिमाल खबर पत्रिका नेपालका चीरपरिचित बाहुनबादि पत्रिका हुन, त्यहाँ सौरभ जस्ताको "हाराकिरी"ले बिशेष स्थान पाउनु कुन ठुलो कुरा हो र ? राम मानन्धरले उक्त हाराकिरीको चिरफार गरेर कान्तिपुरलाइ पठाएछन, कान्तिपुरले जस्ताको तस्तै छाप्ने हिम्मत गरेन छन । मानन्धरको उक्त आलेख मेरो ठेगानामा नि बोधार्थ आएको थियो, तर अक्षरहरु गोलमटोल भएर पढ्न सकिन, फेरि पठाउन अनुरोध गरेको छु । अहिलेलाइ चैने कान्तिपुरले काँटछाट गरेर छापेको अंश यहाँ टाँस्छु -
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'हाराकिरी’ को आतंक

'सौरभ' को लेख 'नेवा राज्य ः
सभ्यताको हाराकिरी' पढ्दा आनन्द आयो ।  पृथ्वीनारायण शाहले काठमाडौं हात
पारेपछि यहाँका पण्डितहरूलाई इन्द्रचोकमा भोज बोलाई जिउँदै आगो लगाई सामूहिक हत्या
गर्नुअगाडि यस्तै केही पढेर सुनाएको हुनुपर्छ । सुरुदेखि अन्तसम्म नेवार र नेवार
सभ्यताको गुणगान गर्न आधापृष्ठ खर्च गरिएको उक्त लेखमा लेखकको नेवारप्रतिको ममता,
आत्मीयपन र सम्मानभन्दा पनि प्रत्येक हरफमा काठमाडौं मोहको गन्ध आउँछ । ललाई फकाई
वा तर्साई २४० वर्षसम्म आफ्नो अधिनमा राखेर सर्वनाश गरिरहेको यो सानो नेवाः
क्षेत्रमाथि आफ्नो हैकम गुम्ला, सबैलाई निकाली नै देला भन्ने त्रास त्यसमा
पाठकहरूले महसुस गर्न सक्छन् ।

लेखकले नेवार इष्ट नहुने आख्यानलाई बिर्साउन
थोपर्नुभएको ऐतिहासिक प्रसंग र उपमातर्फ नजाऔं । तर यो घामजस्तै छर्लङ्ग छ, जब-जब
नेवारहरूले आफ्नो अस्तित्व र पहिचानको बारेमा सोच्नमात्र पनि थाल्छन्, तब-तब आफ्नो
केही नभएर सबैलाई आफ्नो भनेर हिँड्नेहरूको छाती भत्भती पोल्न थाल्छ । यो लेख पनि
त्यसै पोलाइको एक कडी हो । आजभोलि यस्ता लेखहरू खुब पढ्न पाइन्छ ।  लेखकलाई
अचानक नेवार सभ्यताप्रति श्रद्धा जागेछ र सबैमा नेवार र नेवारमा सबै देख्न थालेछन्


पृथ्वीनारायण शाहलाई काठमाडांै मन पर्नुअगाडि जो यस नेवाः प्रदेशमा आए
उनीहरूले कुनै जोड घटाउ नगरी यहाँको भाषा संस्कृति रहन-सहनलाई आफ्नो बनाए, उनीहरूले
यहाँको सुविधा भोग गर्न होइन, यहाँको सभ्यता संस्कृतिको संरक्षण गर्नमा आफूलाई
मेटाए, नेवार भइगए । त्यसपछाडि शाहवंशको कृपाले जो पनि आए उनीहरू आप्रवासी मात्र
भएर बस्न मन पराए । कम्युनिस्टहरूमा नेवारकी छोरी बिहे गर्ने होड नै चल्यो तर कुनै
ज्वाइँले आफूलाई नेवार बनाउन चाहेन, किन बनाओस् त जब उद्देश्य नै कसैगरी आफूलाई
काठमाडौंमा टँसाउनुमात्र थियो भने । अहिले नेपालमा संघीयताको

सवालले नेपाली
जनताको राजनीतिक चेतना, एक भाषा र एक जातिको संस्कृतिको दमनप्रतिको अस्वीकार र
आफ्नो जातीय पहिचानको इच्छासँगै मूर्त रूप लिन लागेको देखिन्छ । आजभोलि केही
तामाङहरूलाई तर्कहीन कुरा गर्न लगाएर नेवारहरूलाई चिढाउने र संघीयताविरुद्ध लाग्न
उक्साइरहेका छन् । त्यसैले त मगर राज्य बन्दा मगर सभ्यताको, मिथिला राज्य बन्दा
मैथली सभ्यताको 'हाराकिरी' हुँदैन नेवाः राज्य बने पछिमात्र 'हाराकिरी' को
आतंक छाउँछ ।

- राम मानन्धर


 
Posted on 11-25-09 7:37 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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the history as we read in text books r very much able to answer even though it is highly distorted, manipulated n written in favor of royals n thier people of influences. nepal as we see today was only limited to ktm valley n surroundings, remaining were alien lands, we know who were there n how it was unified. so before 250 years this heteregeneous mixture of population was not is existence. ktm had newars only speaking same dialects, folowing same rituals n religious traditions. current eastern region of nepal was populated by kirats as mjaority, they made thier presence in those lands n brought up civilization of thier own. so ,ancient is thier civilization that even mahabharat has mentioned them. many of them had relation with land n other natural resources which was legitimized in kipat system inscripted in tamropatra issued by prithvi narayn shah made in a treaty n mutual cooperation to assist the unification of nepal beyond sikkim untill it was abolished by mahendra n made mass migration of other ethnics more easier. the mountains, rivers, hills, lakes everyone has local name n many mountains, rocks r termed dieties since ancient times. so, these proves n r evidences of thier being indegenous. the history states same with people of gorkha, lamjung, liglig n others, ie, they were all colonized, before that period it had population of different oirigins yielding the land since time imemorable.it all fits by the definitions.theres no explaining the plight of tharus, they were the worst victimized by this colonist nature of ruling class. the only prob with bahun chettris r they dont hav a region in nepal to claim where they had existence since earliest known history excluding myths. far western regions hav khas tribes but they r reluctant to b incorporated in one n actual khas of karnali r reluctant to include them in. all those aristocrats n elites of nepal hav tied their roots to rajpoots of india, so there u go. the herirarchy of brahmins, khetriyas, sudra n dalits were not originated in any current goegraphic land of nepal. it was doctrinated in muluki ain only at the time of junga bahadur rana based on manu script of hinduism n this was highly unfair n irrevelent to ethnic tribes, this does not exceed couple of centuries. but many tribes hav historical existence since millenium. yes, chettris having khas roots r being reviewed n investigation is going on. these r al about janjatis or indegenous but not only quotas as u level them to b opportunist of. it is only a mechanism to bring them into mainstream n free compitition n merit based selection in nepal is bullshitt, all r influenced by nepotism, source n force.

no doubt about being a nepali n zeal of unity. but ignorance is also worst of all, we can already see the fire burning under these sentiments with unnecessary politicizing.

 
Posted on 11-25-09 9:34 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Sirupate brigade, What do you mean the current jatiya system was made by Junga bahadur based on Manusmriti. That is hilarious. If he actually followed that he will be in lower tier.

 It is well known fact that whatever Shah and Rana claim to be but they are Magars. Magar dhani/powerful bhaya chettri lekhna thalchha, Chettri powerful/dhani bhaya thakuri lekhna thalchha. That was how the tradition is/was.

What is brahmin? What is chettri? What is Royalty? It is all about power? If you become rich or powerful you raise your caste. Was not that a hundred year or so khatri (KC) was raised to chettri by a rana prime minister. And was not it few thousand years ago Kasai were Mahispal king of kathmandu valley and Gopali were the Gopalbansi king. Was not it in ancient time in hindu scripture that Bishwamitra became Maharshi from chettri, Harishchandra became chandal from king and Balmiki a saint from byadha.

So who is what and who was what is all about power. Every body has a rich history , Every body was a Roman and offcourse there has been rise and fall of Roman empire.



 



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